Great idea for a series and very timely for us as we are actively looking at areas in eastern TN for a retirement / homestead.
One bit about the other side. Although I agree that being cautious about neighbors and community is extremely valuable, we should also be careful that we don't let our biases, upbringing, personal comfort zones, and many of the prejudices that have been brainwashed into us poison our view of others.
For example, a person might stroll into the local Walmart as you say and feel uncomfortable, but why? Are the people dressed differently than what you're used to? Do they speak differently? Hairstyle? Tatoos? Overweight? Underweight? It is awfully hard to form correct insights about people based solely on appearances. They might not be the people you want to invite to the opera or a soiree at the country club but in a collapse society where the ability to fight like hell could be key, you might not care that much about language or appearance. People sometimes look rough because life is rough and has kicked them around. Some have lost hope and turned to drugs or other escapes. Yes, be careful. But consulting with Psychology Today may not be the best guide either.
Point being: it's hard to know about people. You could visit local churches in areas you are considering, but what does that tell you? Some of the most selfish and manipulative people I have met over the years have come from Sunday church groups. My take here is that the primary consideration is economic viability and security. If things get truly SHTF, the people who make poor life choices are not going to be around for long. Heck, even people who make good choices might not be. Are there enough good, reliable people to partner with in a given locale that will ensure long term success? If so, that is about the best we can hope for. Being far from large cities that will generate gangs of desperate, roving criminals is key. Having trusty neighbors for assistance against any local gangs is next in priority to me.
One final word on Kunstler. Love the guy's writing. He is wrong about the oil/energy issue. He conflates his desire to see life return to the 1890s with a view that oil and gas are disappearing and will soon be gone. Plenty of oil and gas and coal. We just happen to have an insane government that won't allow us to extract it in an economic way because they have a psychopathic need to control us and use green energy ideology as the tool. It is manufactured scarcity, plain and simple. The only way we go back to the World Made By Hand envisioned by Kunstler is if the insane neocons provoke a nuclear holocaust. If that happens, there won't be a world worth living in, hand or not.
There are several points in your comment that I agree with and several that tell me that my words triggered some cognitive dissonance. This is a good thing because if dealt with in a healthy way, will help you tremendously when searching for a new home.
Regardless of managerial class verbiage where we shy from reality in favor of feel good, ego boosting virtue signaling, this article is written for folks who validate their guts and honestly address what is comfortable for them or not.
Economic viability and security depend on a functioning culture. If we are around people who value crime, violence, apathy, laziness, and illiteracy the economic health and safety of that area is in free fall. This is why I am of the opinion that we need to be around people that we feel comfortable with. At the same time we do not need to be best friends with everyone or judge every little thing they do that we dislike. There is a balance we must strive for. I live in a very depressed area of the country where the folks you speak of, are actually massive social drains on the community. Their class wide undiagnosed mental illnesses (especially in Appalachia) and valued culture of violence causes tremendous pain and suffering for a lot of people here. As our society declines, this is projected to get worse. Not addressing these unpleasant people does not do them or the rest of us any good. By all means, do what brings you satisfaction but for others I strongly encourage them to always trust their gut regardless of how someone else in a more privileged position feels.
Church:
"You could visit local churches in areas you are considering, but what does that tell you?" A lot actually.
I couldn't agree more about the Christian church and you will love our church article that we will be publishing in the near future. We were shocked at what we found and want to get the message out that the current Christian Church (predominately made of fake believers) are a huge problem to the welfare of Appalachians and Americans as a whole.
Kunstler:
From my understanding, peak oil is not about fossil fuels instantly vanishing from use. In fact a tremendous amount of oil is still underground and will be there for some time. The real issue is the funds/technology/ and ROI on getting the remaining fossil fuels to the surface to refine and use to power our industrial society. As Americans, we make up only 5% of the human population yet we consume roughly 25% of the energy consumed. Simply put, we, and the rest of the industrial world can no longer afford to keep consuming this much energy on a finite planet. Where once it took 1 barrel of oil to extract 100 barrels we are now nearing 1 to 1. This will take many more years but the overall trajectory of fossil fuel extraction is down.
Like you mention, government is made up of narcissistic morons who's limited talent range only consists of manipulating people for personal advantage. Certainly not a winning strategy for prosperity in the face of civilization decline. We definitely cannot depend on them to make any sort of intelligent decisions. We must make them for ourselves which is what this series is all about.
I agree; I moved to North Georgia and I find my hill billy neighbors preferable to the Atlanta suburb neighbors we used to have, IYKWIM. Yes, too many tats and wife beater shirts (if they even WEAR a shirt), and they could definitely lose a few pounds, but l find them to be friendly as long as you don't look down your nose at them. It is still mostly an honor based society here. Politeness is returned, but raising your voice at someone might cause violence. At least the local crooks skulk instead of swaggering proudly, like they do south of here in Atlanta.
Totally agree about the phony oil scarcity policy, too. Abiogenic oil production is something that was talked about in the previous century. Still relevant. Think of it this way, if you were an oil company and you wanted to get more money, wouldn't you arrange a scarcity instead of a surplus?
In Australian rural regions we often end up with a pattern of respectable towns alternating with crappy towns full of dodgy characters. The people in the nice towns drive them out, but they have to accumulate somewhere. Does the same thing happen in Appalachia?
Hi Shane, appreciate your comment. How do the nice communities drive them out in your neck of the woods? I would love to get any advice on that. Yes, a similar pattern occurs here. Finances play a pivotal part in what areas are decent to raise a family and which area are not. Although the vast majority of Appalachia is poverty stricken to varying degrees, resort towns such as Snow Shoe, Omni, Asheville, and White Sulphur Springs have very wealthy parts.
The U.S. criminal justice system makes it almost impossible for a productive resolution to weeding out criminally oriented people (i.e. Low-Class) who refuse to assimilate into society while fostering this classes proclivity to crime and mental illness. This institution makes a staggering amount of money shuffling low class people in and out of the court system while the average Appalachian is stuck having to put up with meth addicts, overdoes, burglaries, robberies, drunk drivers, and murders. A growing trend that I have seen is a rise in police that are actually drug running themselves or committing crimes such as drunk driving and murder.
Needless to say we law abiding citizens are on our own over here without a way to truly tackle the issues discussed. If we try to work together to literally run people out, local and state bureaucracies would shut it down on the basis of discrimination, etc. Additionally, the social cohesion in the region is nil which makes any constructive coalition challenging to create. Thanks again for taking the time to read this article and comment.
I will ask a friend who used to live further out how the dynamic emerged, though i suspect property/rent prices might be a big part of it. Poverty and meth are growing issues here as well. It feels like we are getting closer to the conditions where something akin to medieval monasteries in rural areas might be viable for select younger folk to escape the cities and achieve economies of scale.
Love your insights Shane. You make a very good case for Neo-monastic centers taking root in various areas in our countries. As Western Civ continues to decline I can see young people really appreciating the purpose and community these institutions offer. Hopefully they will grow in popularity so that people can find value in their lives once again.
Hi AA, I appreciate your observations from the other side of the country. When you describe it in this light it really shows how the nation's population is declining. Despite the grim picture of substance abusers running amuck, I see a silver lining that once government (local, state, and federal) are unable to keep order the rest of us can finally protect ourselves and hold each other accountable. At this point we will finally have agency to design our own futures at the local level.
Great idea for a series and very timely for us as we are actively looking at areas in eastern TN for a retirement / homestead.
One bit about the other side. Although I agree that being cautious about neighbors and community is extremely valuable, we should also be careful that we don't let our biases, upbringing, personal comfort zones, and many of the prejudices that have been brainwashed into us poison our view of others.
For example, a person might stroll into the local Walmart as you say and feel uncomfortable, but why? Are the people dressed differently than what you're used to? Do they speak differently? Hairstyle? Tatoos? Overweight? Underweight? It is awfully hard to form correct insights about people based solely on appearances. They might not be the people you want to invite to the opera or a soiree at the country club but in a collapse society where the ability to fight like hell could be key, you might not care that much about language or appearance. People sometimes look rough because life is rough and has kicked them around. Some have lost hope and turned to drugs or other escapes. Yes, be careful. But consulting with Psychology Today may not be the best guide either.
Point being: it's hard to know about people. You could visit local churches in areas you are considering, but what does that tell you? Some of the most selfish and manipulative people I have met over the years have come from Sunday church groups. My take here is that the primary consideration is economic viability and security. If things get truly SHTF, the people who make poor life choices are not going to be around for long. Heck, even people who make good choices might not be. Are there enough good, reliable people to partner with in a given locale that will ensure long term success? If so, that is about the best we can hope for. Being far from large cities that will generate gangs of desperate, roving criminals is key. Having trusty neighbors for assistance against any local gangs is next in priority to me.
One final word on Kunstler. Love the guy's writing. He is wrong about the oil/energy issue. He conflates his desire to see life return to the 1890s with a view that oil and gas are disappearing and will soon be gone. Plenty of oil and gas and coal. We just happen to have an insane government that won't allow us to extract it in an economic way because they have a psychopathic need to control us and use green energy ideology as the tool. It is manufactured scarcity, plain and simple. The only way we go back to the World Made By Hand envisioned by Kunstler is if the insane neocons provoke a nuclear holocaust. If that happens, there won't be a world worth living in, hand or not.
Hi Jupiter,
There are several points in your comment that I agree with and several that tell me that my words triggered some cognitive dissonance. This is a good thing because if dealt with in a healthy way, will help you tremendously when searching for a new home.
Regardless of managerial class verbiage where we shy from reality in favor of feel good, ego boosting virtue signaling, this article is written for folks who validate their guts and honestly address what is comfortable for them or not.
Economic viability and security depend on a functioning culture. If we are around people who value crime, violence, apathy, laziness, and illiteracy the economic health and safety of that area is in free fall. This is why I am of the opinion that we need to be around people that we feel comfortable with. At the same time we do not need to be best friends with everyone or judge every little thing they do that we dislike. There is a balance we must strive for. I live in a very depressed area of the country where the folks you speak of, are actually massive social drains on the community. Their class wide undiagnosed mental illnesses (especially in Appalachia) and valued culture of violence causes tremendous pain and suffering for a lot of people here. As our society declines, this is projected to get worse. Not addressing these unpleasant people does not do them or the rest of us any good. By all means, do what brings you satisfaction but for others I strongly encourage them to always trust their gut regardless of how someone else in a more privileged position feels.
Church:
"You could visit local churches in areas you are considering, but what does that tell you?" A lot actually.
I couldn't agree more about the Christian church and you will love our church article that we will be publishing in the near future. We were shocked at what we found and want to get the message out that the current Christian Church (predominately made of fake believers) are a huge problem to the welfare of Appalachians and Americans as a whole.
Kunstler:
From my understanding, peak oil is not about fossil fuels instantly vanishing from use. In fact a tremendous amount of oil is still underground and will be there for some time. The real issue is the funds/technology/ and ROI on getting the remaining fossil fuels to the surface to refine and use to power our industrial society. As Americans, we make up only 5% of the human population yet we consume roughly 25% of the energy consumed. Simply put, we, and the rest of the industrial world can no longer afford to keep consuming this much energy on a finite planet. Where once it took 1 barrel of oil to extract 100 barrels we are now nearing 1 to 1. This will take many more years but the overall trajectory of fossil fuel extraction is down.
Like you mention, government is made up of narcissistic morons who's limited talent range only consists of manipulating people for personal advantage. Certainly not a winning strategy for prosperity in the face of civilization decline. We definitely cannot depend on them to make any sort of intelligent decisions. We must make them for ourselves which is what this series is all about.
I agree; I moved to North Georgia and I find my hill billy neighbors preferable to the Atlanta suburb neighbors we used to have, IYKWIM. Yes, too many tats and wife beater shirts (if they even WEAR a shirt), and they could definitely lose a few pounds, but l find them to be friendly as long as you don't look down your nose at them. It is still mostly an honor based society here. Politeness is returned, but raising your voice at someone might cause violence. At least the local crooks skulk instead of swaggering proudly, like they do south of here in Atlanta.
Totally agree about the phony oil scarcity policy, too. Abiogenic oil production is something that was talked about in the previous century. Still relevant. Think of it this way, if you were an oil company and you wanted to get more money, wouldn't you arrange a scarcity instead of a surplus?
In Australian rural regions we often end up with a pattern of respectable towns alternating with crappy towns full of dodgy characters. The people in the nice towns drive them out, but they have to accumulate somewhere. Does the same thing happen in Appalachia?
Hi Shane, appreciate your comment. How do the nice communities drive them out in your neck of the woods? I would love to get any advice on that. Yes, a similar pattern occurs here. Finances play a pivotal part in what areas are decent to raise a family and which area are not. Although the vast majority of Appalachia is poverty stricken to varying degrees, resort towns such as Snow Shoe, Omni, Asheville, and White Sulphur Springs have very wealthy parts.
The U.S. criminal justice system makes it almost impossible for a productive resolution to weeding out criminally oriented people (i.e. Low-Class) who refuse to assimilate into society while fostering this classes proclivity to crime and mental illness. This institution makes a staggering amount of money shuffling low class people in and out of the court system while the average Appalachian is stuck having to put up with meth addicts, overdoes, burglaries, robberies, drunk drivers, and murders. A growing trend that I have seen is a rise in police that are actually drug running themselves or committing crimes such as drunk driving and murder.
Needless to say we law abiding citizens are on our own over here without a way to truly tackle the issues discussed. If we try to work together to literally run people out, local and state bureaucracies would shut it down on the basis of discrimination, etc. Additionally, the social cohesion in the region is nil which makes any constructive coalition challenging to create. Thanks again for taking the time to read this article and comment.
I will ask a friend who used to live further out how the dynamic emerged, though i suspect property/rent prices might be a big part of it. Poverty and meth are growing issues here as well. It feels like we are getting closer to the conditions where something akin to medieval monasteries in rural areas might be viable for select younger folk to escape the cities and achieve economies of scale.
Love your insights Shane. You make a very good case for Neo-monastic centers taking root in various areas in our countries. As Western Civ continues to decline I can see young people really appreciating the purpose and community these institutions offer. Hopefully they will grow in popularity so that people can find value in their lives once again.
For the most part most rural towns at least in Washington or Idaho are empty or inhabited by retired people .
There are many towns which have brick buildings oak trees nice old neighborhoods etc but literally sit empty.
In the more heavy agricultural areas the inhabitants are mainly Mexicans or from Honduras etc.
Both my sister and aunt where teachers in central Californian towns and the huge amout of Ag chemicals lead to Cancer and learning disabilities.
Often if there is a Defense installation like the Tonepah Test range you will have a combination of Meth Heads with PHDs .
I guess the houses are cheap though often just 50k or less.
Hi AA, I appreciate your observations from the other side of the country. When you describe it in this light it really shows how the nation's population is declining. Despite the grim picture of substance abusers running amuck, I see a silver lining that once government (local, state, and federal) are unable to keep order the rest of us can finally protect ourselves and hold each other accountable. At this point we will finally have agency to design our own futures at the local level.
The character disorders of "low class" peeps perfectly fit the former guy.
This comment, on its own, doesn’t seem to make sense. What guy are you referring to?
Trump.
Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification. Also, agreed. Low class isn't primarily about socioeconomic level.
This is the $64k question for me.
NH is so cold but I like the idea of the free state project.